The insurance industry is complicated, to say the least. Murray Durham specializes in helping companies and individuals get the best coverage for the lowest cost possible.
He takes a different approach than most agents. He doesn’t go with the simple or easiest solution. Murray digs deep to find what works best for each client… even if it’s a bit unconventional.
Listen in to find out…
- What the typical business owner must know about insurance that nobody else will tell them
- Why your financial planner shouldn’t plan your insurance coverage
- How to save $4,000 to $5,000 on insurance costs next year
- The health insurance agents you should avoid – and those you should embrace
- And more
Mentioned in This Episode: www.mgdins.com
Jay Sparks: Hi, this is Jay Sparks, your host of Finding Unique Value. I’m the bringer of brilliant people that can find that unique value. And I’m excited to be joined today by Murray Durham, who has a very similar approach in his industry as we do in the investment industry, even though there’s very little overlap.
Murray is focused on finding value in a complicated and seemingly very confusing insurance industry, at least to someone who has tried to look at a policy and figure out what you own. Let alone if you’re trying to buy a policy and need to know what to buy and how much you should pay for the features. So Murray seeks to find the best solutions that provide the best value for the insured, which of course is very, very hard to do, and we’re very lucky we know him.
So, Murray, welcome to the podcast.
Murray Durham: Hi, Jay. Good to be here and looking forward to this.
Jay Sparks: Excellent. Excellent. Well, could you just take a minute and introduce yourself, kind of what you’re currently doing and how long and all that type of thing.
Murray Durham: Hi, my name’s Murray Durham. I’ve been doing health, disability, and life insurance since January of 2000. Started going through school in the late ’90s when I left my prior occupation as a research engineer. Since then, the focus I’ve had is taking difficult cases and trying to get people placed and placed in a reasonable cost.
Jay Sparks: Excellent. Excellent. Again, that sounds very much like our investment approach. I’m interested to hear a little bit more on the details on that. But what I’d like to start, I think it’d be interesting because you met my business partner Mark Elliottt some years ago. I think the meeting you had is very similar to some of the things that we hear about our industry and our peers. So if you could go into that a little bit, I think it’d be interesting.
Murray Durham: Yeah. Mark and myself met I think it was about 12 years ago, 10-12 years ago. We were introduced by a representative for one of the HSA third party administrators. Mark fully believes in the HSA. He wanted to be able to have somebody that understood them. He went around trying to find other insurance people that knew less about them than he did. He went to a couple of the third party administrators, and had more questions than they were prepared to answer. Finally, one of them told him that he needed to contact me. We set up a meeting where he was going to come over to my home and it was supposed to be at most a half hour meeting. He came in, sat down, and told me he was going to make it real brief because he laid out all the reasons that he did not like insurance agents. And I stopped him, and-
Jay Sparks: That’s a tough way to start the conversation with someone.
Murray Durham: Well, I stopped him, and told him I agreed 100% with him. The people did not understand what he was trying to do. Told him about the approach that I took, and that 15 minute to half hour meeting ended up being something more along the lines of like eight or 10 hours.
Jay Sparks: Oh sure. Wow. That’s incredible. I’m laughing because Mark Elliottt and I hear the same thing about people in our industry, right? A lot of people out there that they’re looking to take your money and not really provide any value, right? Matter of fact, they provide less value. They reduce what you give them, and of course we don’t believe we fall into that category for a whole bunch of reasons. So I’m glad that you were able to show that was not the case, and you do what we do. You learn everything to the nth degree, to the point that people that are supposed to know these details don’t, and they use you. How did this company know to use you? Because you don’t work for them, you’re not an employee, right? You were just an insurance person, right?
Murray Durham: Yeah. I had utilized them in the past to set up HSA accounts for a couple of my group accounts.
Jay Sparks: Okay.
Murray Durham: And when we were going through setting up and addressing everything, I walked them through exactly what I wanted, and we made sure that everything was 100% correct. And they weren’t used to somebody doing that. They were used to somebody just saying, “Okay. Sign these people up. You guys take care of it. Give me my money.” And with myself, I was going in there, I was coordinating the plans. They knew exactly what was going on. I would explain exactly what our philosophy was so that they knew if they had received any questions from anybody, they would have enough information to give basic answers. And if anything was beyond basic, they could send it over to me.
But this rep also when they would come across some difficult questions, they would give me a call also just to find out what the status was on the insurance side. So that’s how that company ended up referring Mark to me. They knew that if anybody had an answer, it was going to be me.
Jay Sparks: Sure. Sure. So why do you have the answers, Murray? Because you don’t have the answer book in front of you. You decoded to finding. So why is it that it’s so easy for you to get this information and not for your peers?
Murray Durham: Well, it’s a matter of background. I came out of the engineering world. I’m very technology-based. I want to take a look. I want the information. I want to have the details. I’m used to meeting with high level people that you have to have an answer immediately, and if you don’t know the answer, you need to be very quick to let them know that you do not know. But you’ll have it to them shortly. That was just a habit of mine. So when I got into the insurance world, I carried that over. I would take a look at the policies. I would take a look at the situation, and I would read in. And I would know exactly how to get people placed. I was able to get very, very difficult people placed when I first got in, and the majority of my business at the early part of my career in insurance was referrals from other insurance agents. When they came across something that they could not figure out how to get this situation insured, they would just send the people over to me.
Jay Sparks: Can you give me an example? I think a layman wouldn’t understand because you may try to get some sort of coverage or a policy, and be told, “Oh, we don’t do that,” or, “You can’t get that.” Obviously that’s just the start of the conversation for you. So how do you move beyond that answer?
Murray Durham: Well, there’s a couple of different ways. In the past, you had to go through underwriting on the individual health policies, and if you knew how to answer questions, you could let the insurance company know exactly what the situation was. Using the correct words, you could get somebody placed. If you didn’t use the correct words, they would get declined. On some groups, you would step in and the insurance companies would not like their line of work. So you could step into a large group and it would be heavily penalized. Well, that’s when you would step in and start negotiating with key people at the insurance company to try to get those penalties dropped down lower to get a better rate.
Jay Sparks: So what type of details could you provide? Obviously you’re not advocated insurance fraud in any sort, but just-
Murray Durham: Oh no.
Jay Sparks: -writing something and being accurate. Two different ways can really make a big difference. Most of us that aren’t doing what you do every day don’t understand that. So it would be interesting to see kind of what … Just trying to evaluate someone that’s doing insurance with them, what types of questions would someone like you be asking so they know if they find someone like Murray?
Murray Durham: Well, on the large groups, the type things that you would take a look at is if they got a large increase. How do you get around that? And it may be mixing up just re-categorizing a couple of groups. You may have two insurance companies where they’re working together, and as long as you can a certain number or a certain group of people onto one company, then both companies will agree to do a 10% increase instead of a 40% increase. That’s what you would do.
Some of the other things that I’ve done were heavily in the medical fields. Doctors, dentists, chiropractors, medical groups. They’ve got their disability insurance, and most agents, they just think, “Okay. Any old disability plan works.” And it doesn’t. For doctors, you’re looking at what’s covered. Well, if they can come in and act as a doctor, a good disability policy is almost worthless to them. And they’d be paying heavily for it. You go in and set them up with some subspecialty coverages. Now you start taking a look, if the doctors are owners of their own business or their own practice, you do a group plan because they’re not going to leave the group. When they do, they’re retired. So you get the group plan together, and you get say four or five doctors along with half a dozen of their staff, 10-20 staff, and they’re getting $10- $15,000 a month of benefit. And yet they’re paying almost nothing for it. They pay very, very little. It’s about maybe, I would say at most about 20-25% of what they do when they go through a normal subspecialty coverage, and just knowing how to combine those is very effective.
I had one neurosurgeon that I sat down with, and his wife had referred him over to me. I had gone in. This is a group that is up in the Northern California. I went into her group, and we got $15,000 of coverage for each of the doctors for about $120-$130 per month. She went back to her husband who was making far, far more than she was, and instructed him, “Well, you’ve only got $10,000 of coverage. Obviously you need more.” He went to his financial planner, and the financial planner told him that by law he could only have $10,000. She pointed out that she got $15,000 in one policy, and when he called me up, within two days, we had multiple carriers that had agreed and we had to use the correct sequence of applying. But we had preapprovals or agreements for I believe it was $93- or $94,000 a month of coverage.
Jay Sparks: Wow.
Murray Durham: So it’s just a matter of knowing how to do the business. And it can make a world of difference in what you can get and the cost of what you’re going to get.
Jay Sparks: Sure. So the value here for this surgeon was that you knew how to combine them so that he could get the coverage that he needed, even though an individual insurance person … So that insurance agent only worked for one company, they wouldn’t even do what you just did, right?
Murray Durham: No, that was his financial planner. His financial planner was authorized to do business with every company that I did business with. He just didn’t understand how disability worked.
Jay Sparks: Yeah. He wasn’t an expert. He was a generalist. Yeah.
Murray Durham: Yeah. Obviously you would hope that somebody that was giving the disability advice was at least up to minimum standards, and when you get an answer such as, “By law, you can only have $10,000 per month,” no. That’s completely incorrect, and nobody even understands the basics would even consider giving an answer like that.
Jay Sparks: Yeah. Yeah. No, that’s incredible. So for the average business owner out there, what do they need to know about the insurance industry, just in general if looking for themselves and maybe it’s a small group of people? What types of things they need to be thinking about so they don’t let this happen to them?
Murray Durham: Well, I think for one, you need to take a look at the agent. You need to understand if got … Depending on the state that you’re in, it could be 50 or it could be 100 people if you’re below that number, you’re in a small group. You get a lot more guarantees. Once you’re above that number, you lose those guarantees.
Jay Sparks: Okay.
Murray Durham: If you’ve got a smaller company, it’s listed as a small business, the rates that you’re going to get are going to be the same whether or go direct or through any agent out there. What you need to do is you need to interview multiple agents, and take a look at what they’re considering, understand that you’re not buying on price, but you’re going to be working with this person long term. So you want somebody that can think outside the box if needed. They can be creative, or he or she can be creative to save you money, and that they understand what they’re doing. They should be able to explain why they’re doing different things, if they come up with something that’s rational.
Next is you want to have somebody that’s got a personality that you like simple because you’re going to be working with that person. If you’re in the large group, you really got to have somebody that has experience in the large groups, somebody that’s got contacts that they’re used to negotiating. At that point, the companies, they’re not restricted to a flat rate. Then you can get some variance in the price. If you’ve got one agent that negotiates a price, that same price is going to be available to another agent. But if that first agent has negotiated it and the second one has not, unless there’s a personal tie, you probably want to use that first person, the one that understands how to do it, negotiate on your behalf.
Jay Sparks: Mm-hmm (affirmative). So let me just backup just a little bit because one of the first things that you said is that you don’t want to buy on price, and most people, not knowing all the complexity, they think that is exactly what they’re buying on, right? Because all policies are the same. So one policy is $1000, and one policy is $900. I want to buy the $900 policy. So how do you make sure that you’re getting the true value, right? The more ‘expensive’ policy may be much, much better for you then the ‘cheaper’ policy, but how does the business owner make that determination?
Murray Durham: Well, that’s what I was getting into before when I said that you wanted to have somebody that understood and could explain why you would go with the different policies or different plans, different options. You want somebody that’s going to understand simply because, like you said, the more expensive policy, it may be more valuable to you, but your employee make take a look at it, and if they’re healthy, you may want to be able to set up something like a HSA in which a lot of agents don’t even consider. So you want to have somebody that gives you all the options and can explain and is willing to explain to each of the employees exactly what is in their best interest, what is not, and why. If they can explain those and explain how each plan works, you’re probably going to be in good hands.
Jay Sparks: Sure. Sure. Can you just give an example you can think of? Maybe even something recent if it’s still fresh where your more ‘expensive’ policy was really a much better value because of what it provided versus what the … if they’re trying to save money would, not that they’re always trying to save money but I think it’d be helpful just to know what that actually means to some people.
Murray Durham: I mean, there’s so many-
Jay Sparks: Let me put it this way, is there a situation that would typically cost more money but it’s worth it, would be another way to look at it.
Murray Durham: There are several, especially if somebody’s got a lot of health concerns. If they know that they’re going in and they’re going to be utilized in their plan, you probably want to bump their plan up, especially if they’re single. If they’re an employee and they’re single, they are going to pay the increased cost for themselves, and it’s pretty easy to justify moving up.
Jay Sparks: Okay.
Murray Durham: If they’ve got a family, depending on the size, you’re looking at it could be two, it could be four or five people that you’re playing the increased premium for. So it gets a little bit more complicated on them. That agent should be sitting down talking to that employee and going through where that person that’s applying and going through and showing what the best case scenario is, what the worst case scenario is, and just with known expenses. If you’ve got ongoing medical needs or planned surgeries or something like that, a maternity, you should be able to calculate that in and come up with an overall cost where you’re taking the employee share, you’re taking their copays, and in the worst case scenario, the max out of pocket. And you’re showing exactly what … “Here’s what your overall payment is going to be, you’re overall cost, that’s including premiums plus copays.”
Jay Sparks: Interesting. Now I remember you saying at one point, I don’t remember the details so you’ll have to refresh my memory, but you were giving an example where say a family of five and they each have slightly different policy I think, if I’m using that terminology.
Murray Durham: Yes.
Jay Sparks: So depending on their situation, can you talk about that a little bit because that’s not something I would typically think about, but luckily I have access to you so you brought it up to me. But that’s a really great concept for people to be aware of.
Murray Durham: Well, on the individual side, what we’ve been getting a lot of is in the last two or three years a lot of family referrals. People are being referred to us when you’ve got a family, say it’s four people, and they wife is pregnant. They’re expecting a baby early in the year, and you’ll have everybody on a silver tier plan. They’re paying their premiums, and they’re paying on the copays and everything. Every person is on the same plan, and they think that’s all you can do. Well, they get referred to me, and I’m talking to them about the husband’s not using the plan. Kids, you want to have upfront coverage. The wife, we know we’ve got a maternity coming in or maybe it’s a surgery, whatever. You upgrade the wife. You keep the kids on that silver plan. You put the husband on an HSA plan. You let him totally fund the HSA, and with the wife, when you upgrade her, you’re eliminating that deductible. You’re also getting a little bit better of insurance, depending on their age. Instead of a 30% copay or a share of cost, they’re only going to pay 10-20%, and they get a lower max out of pocket too.
For the most part, what we’re usually able to do is rearrange everybody, keep the premium within $5 of what it was before or what the renewal is, and then we’re also able to save them just in the copays and the deductibles and the tax savings for the HSA plan, we can usually get the savings into the $4000, $4500 the first year. And after we do that, usually the family is trying to grasp all the changes that we’re doing. I’ve had other agents call up after they switched over to me, and when they’re talking to the wife or the husband and they’re asking about what’s new and whoever it is, the wife or the husband explains about the maternity and everything else going on. The typical response you get from the agent is, “Okay. Then that means we don’t make any changes.” And usually at that point is when the wife, the husband take a look and it dawns on them, “We have the wrong agent. Our agent was not looking out for us. He was just looking to make it as simple as possible.”
Jay Sparks: Yeah.
Murray Durham: Do you want to walk away from $4000, $4500 on your health insurance premiums?
Jay Sparks: To restructure things. What is the downside of that, changing that structure? What would the potential negative be if any, if in this case, the husband, he used the plan more than you anticipated, what does that mean?
Murray Durham: If he would have to use the plan, the worst case scenario would be if he had to use the plan for say $6000 of medical costs, then they’re probably going to be about breaking event, and that’s the downside.
Jay Sparks: Okay. So downside is no loss from where you are, and the upside is you save several thousand dollars. That’s good risk reward ratio. We like that. We like to see more reward, but that’s okay. You don’t really have that in your industry.
Murray Durham: Yeah.
Jay Sparks: Just being able to talk with someone like you who is focused on what they need as opposed to what you want to sell, which is a very different approach
Murray Durham: Correct. The approach I take is I’ve been a referral only since 2002 I believe it is. So I don’t advertise. Every person I get is a referral. So they’re already familiar with who I am. If I don’t do a good job of keeping money in my clients pockets, I’m not going to be receiving those.
Jay Sparks: Sure, sure.
Murray Durham: I far prefer getting the referral than to get a couple of dollars extra on the commission, and not get five-10 referrals down the line.
Jay Sparks: Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. That’s a smart way. That’s a long term way of looking at things, right?
Murray Durham: Yeah, and the agent that work for me. The agents that work for me generally if they start talking about what commission they can get on the deal, I usually set them down and talk to them and just let them know that if they’re going to think about commission, if they’re going to think about what’s in it for them, they’re obviously not doing the best job for the client. Therefore, if I heard them talking about it that way, they would no longer be working with us.
Jay Sparks: Yeah.
Murray Durham: Yeah. We would let them go. I want agents that’ll step in and understand that if you do a good job, if you save and educate the clients, you may get a slower start on your commissions. It may take a little longer to build up, but once it does, it’s going to take care of itself.
Jay Sparks: Sure, sure. Well, with that in mind, what are some questions that people can ask or there some tell-tale signs that someone is more likely to have access to all the different sources that you have so they’re more likely to be able to find the right solution versus just what they have in their bag of tricks that they sell everybody?
Murray Durham: Well, number one, what you want to do is you want to make sure the person is a pro in their area of insurance. I don’t deal with property and casualty. I don’t deal with the homeowner, the auto. I don’t try to stretch myself into the liability insurance, things like that. I specialize in health and disability for the most part.
Jay Sparks: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Murray Durham: I’ve got agents that they do property and casualty. They do the homeowners, the auto. Others that do the commercial. You want to make sure that that person is a pro. If you talk to them and they’re selling homeowners insurance and auto insurance, all they’re doing on the health insurance is they’re trying to make an extra buck. They’re just trying to enhance their income. What you want is somebody that is very professional in what they do, they know what they’re doing, and they’re knowledgeable. You want to make sure that you don’t have somebody that’s just been licensed in the last year to do. They’re probably not going to be there six months from then or the chances are against it. So you want somebody that’s been in business for at least five years. You want somebody that you can talk to and you get clear, coherent answers. If they give you answers and they don’t make sense, you might want to talk to somebody else.
Jay Sparks: Sure.
Murray Durham: If they don’t know the answer to something, you want that person to tell you that they don’t know but they’ll get you the answer.
Jay Sparks: Sure.
Murray Durham: Second, you want to make sure that they care. You want to make sure that the personality agrees with you. You want to make sure that the thought process is similar. Most of my clients are white collar. I’ve got very few blue collar clients, and the ones that I do, the management are all ex-engineers. So we understand each other, and it’s easier to deal with them. As far as the blue collar businesses where it’s blue collar all the way up and came up through the ranks, it’s a little bit more difficult having them understand me. We speak a different language. But if I’m talking to a lawyer, if I’m talking to a doctor, we’re on the same wave length. We know exactly what we mean. There’s no miscommunication. There’s no repeating myself. There’s very few questions.
Jay Sparks: Let me ask you this, what about someone that works at an agency that has all of these different insurances? So maybe they have one or two people in the office, but maybe specialize in one or two, is that something that tends to work, or is that-
Murray Durham: It’s fine if different people are handling it. But the problem that comes up is that if you’ve got one person that’s handling it, it’s going to be an issue. And you get very few agencies that can handle both property and casualty and life and health. For the most part, they’re going to be one or the other is going to be their specialty.
Jay Sparks: Okay. What about, because I know there are two kind of main groups, maybe there’s more, so please educate if I’m off here. But you have people that represent one firm, and you have people like yourself that can … I don’t know if you work with anybody you want to, but you have many, many sources that you can choose from. Is that right or are there more different groupings of how people represent?
Murray Durham: You’ve got a couple of different groups. The first subsets can be life and health. For the most part, everybody there can deal with anybody. If you’re individual or small group, you might want to make sure that you can do the state exchange if needed, especially on the individual level. Chances are they’re going to be certified with each of the companies or appointed with each of the companies. You can also do a license search with any of the state’s department of insurances and see exactly who they’re appointed with. And if you only see a recent appointment or if you see a problem with their license or if you only see one or two companies, there’s a problem.
On the property and casualty side, you’ll see more of what you were talking about where you’ve got a cap of agents, and that’s primarily going the be things like Allstate, State Farm, Farmers. Those agents, that’s all they can sell. Whoever Allstate has negotiated with for the health insurance. So maybe it’s a Blue Shield or an Anthem Blue Cross, you want to make sure that those people do have the certifications to go or the appointments to go with multiple companies. The property and casualty agents that I use that’s got access to a couple that are captive but for the most part most of the needs end up being with other carriers, ones that are available on the open market.
Jay Sparks: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Interesting. Okay. Thank you. No, that’s helpful. So I know one of the thing that came up is not only do you have a lot of experience as an agent, you also have a lot of experience in being insured it sounds like. I know just recently you just said you got in an accident two days ago, which is I’m fortunate everything’s fine. But you had some interesting … For instance, when you were younger, I think helped steal your resolve in some of these cases. Would you mind bringing up one of those because you had some pretty dramatic things happen when you were younger.
Murray Durham: Yeah. The first incident that I had to deal with insurance heavily was when I was coming out of high school, coming back from a workout with some teammates, just dropped them off, and just as I was getting close to my house, I was getting ready to make a turn, a left hand turn, a drunk driver came and hit me. Definitely, completely totaled the car, and I had to be cut out and everything. So it kind of delayed the initial career that I was looking at. And kind of refocusing, it actually gave … It turned out to be a good thing because it did open up my backup plan, which I’m not sure I had otherwise. That was the first.
I’ve been involved in a car accident where the driver died. I was told that I had died temporarily, and they weren’t sure I was going to live through it. That’s where I got into a lot more details with people, with the different insurance companies and carriers.
Just recently, I’ve also had experience with a Mexican trucking company. One of their truckers ran a red light and hit me head on, and the answer that they were self insured through Mexico. So all they did was close down and open up under a new company name. So I got nothing out of that.
And just recently, we had rains and ended up while I was on the freeway hit a patch of water and ended up going full speed into a spin and bouncing along the center divider. So I was able to walk away from that. The car did not.
Jay Sparks: Thank goodness.
Murray Durham: I’ve had a few experiences as the client on the insurance dealings.
Jay Sparks: So how has that changed your perception or what maybe were you able to do to help yourself that maybe you wouldn’t have if you didn’t know what you currently know? Was there anything that was helpful for you?
Murray Durham: I would say as it’s gone on more recently, I would say it’s given me … Like this time I was able to get everything processed very quickly and in a matter of two days, everything is, for the most part, completed. The accident occurred late Tuesday night, early Wednesday when I was coming back from Orange County, coming down to San Diego. And to have that resolved by Thursday, that’s pretty impressive, and it’s just knowing call, followup, knowing what information to give, and letting them know, that yeah, I’m an insurance agent. So I know what to watch for, what to do, and do you mind doing this. Just throwing out a couple extras. So I guess just from dealing with insurance companies, you learn how to provide enough information in a way that accelerates the claim.
Jay Sparks: Sure. Now can a good agent like yourself typically do that, or is there something that we as the insured need to learn ourselves? If that day ever comes, we know better how to move things forward so we get what our-
Murray Durham: Most likely-
Jay Sparks: -so to speak.
Murray Durham: In most cases, if you’re not in the insurance world, what you’re going to be doing is putting your claim in with the company, and on the property and casualty side or liability side, what you’re going to do is contact your agent and have your agent followup on everything. That’s generally the way it’s going to work. You’re not going to know enough. You’re not going to use the insurance enough to understand everything, and the only advice I could give on making sure a claim gets paid and paid quick is give as many details as you can. There’s never too much information. If they have questions, it’s going to delay stuff. If you give a ton of information, half of it they may not use, but they’re also not going to be asking questions. There’s not going to be a reason for any kind of delays.
Jay Sparks: Sure. Sure. Well, this has been incredible. Even though I’ve known you a bit now, you still manage to come up with some information I hadn’t known, at least not in this way. So I feel a lot better prepared to help people. But is there any last piece of advice that you have for a business owner or looking at what they currently have or if they’re looking to change, is there anything in particular that they should do besides of course find someone like yourself? Any other questions or thoughts that you think would help them?
Murray Durham: I would say just make sure that they’re comfortable with who they’re working with, make sure that it’s somebody that they’ve got a lot of access to. If they’re dealing with a major agency, make sure that that agent is going to stay there because if they’re turning over people, you never know if you’re going to get a good person or bad person. So make sure that you get along with that agent, make sure that you can talk, that you understand each other, and that agents capable. Make sure that they understand how to separate different plans, make sure that they understand how to save you money, make sure that they understand tax consequences because that comes in heavily. And the other thing is if you have an agent that starts talking about insurance as an investment, you probably want to run away because the next thing they’re going to be doing is trying to tell you that an insurance vehicle is a great way to make money, and they’re going to pull you out of much better fits.
Jay Sparks: Sure.
Murray Durham: The investments need to stay with a company more like yours. If you pull it away, all you’re going to do is lock yourself into something in which the consequences are a lot more negative than what you expect.
Jay Sparks: Sure, not to mention just the layer upon layer of fees, which is very rare that those make any sense for a long term investment. If you’re looking for the kind of coverage that you’re describing, it’s a necessary evil, but even then, if you get the right mix in the policy, there is … Like the example you gave earlier, there is an opportunity in a lot of ways for you to spend less and get at least the coverage you’re getting and maybe even more, depending on your situation. So it’s important to have someone like you’re describing.
Murray Durham: Yeah.
Jay Sparks: Well, this is great. Go ahead.
Murray Durham: Yeah. If you’ve got a small business, you definitely want to have somebody that’s open to thinking outside the box. You may end up mixing personal policies with group policies because they come under different … There’s different side effects to each. The group policies usually cost a little bit more as far as the coverage goes for health insurance. But you also get a lot more choices. So that agent better be or she better be approached in both ways. They should be showing you what your effect is. If you’ve got a 20 person company and you’re a better fit on a personal policy, you better know it.
Jay Sparks: Sure.
Murray Durham: Chances are it’s not going to be that way. Chances are it’s going to be through the company because the tax consequences. The tax savings. But that person better be approaching everything. They better be looking at all avenues, making sure that they look outside the box.
Jay Sparks: Mm-hmm (affirmative). No, that’s great. That’s great. Well, we all certainly need access to a Murray Durham in our lives, and I’m grateful that you were able to impress Mark Elliott 10-12 years ago so that I now have access to you. Certainly when you’re looking to get the right coverage for the right price, there’s not an any decision because these things change, and they can be complicated depending on your personal situation. So if somebody hears some of your comments and you’ve intrigued them or made them nervous about what they currently have, Murray, what’s the easiest way for somebody to get in touch with you and see if there’s an opportunity that you may be able to help them?
Murray Durham: I would say that they could … If they have questions, they can give me a call or email me. My phone number is 949-295-4349. My email is MDurham@MGDINS.com. That’s M for Murray, Durham, D-U-R-H-A-M @mgd, for Murray Gordon Durham, and then ins for insurance .com. If they go to the webpage, it’s very basic. So they’re probably not going to get any answers out of that. But if they email or call, they certainly have direct access to me.
Jay Sparks: Great. No, that’s great. It’s very generous. I hope if someone does have questions, they do take you up on that. For everyone else, thank you very much for listening to Finding Unique Value, and looking forward to sharing our next guest with you. Bye for now.